The Marcionite Agrument in Irenaeus' AH 4.30.1 is Absolutely Jewish; Here's the Proof ...

Does anyone have any idea how stupid traditional scholarship on Marcion is? I am serious. It amounts to being like a man having sex with a confirmed lesbian. She might go through the motions but she really has no interest in the act. This is how scholars have always treated the study of Marcion.

The deceptive Church Fathers have convinced these morons that the Marcionite notion of a 'better' God than the angel who made himself manifest to Moses and the fathers is heresy. Of course these dimwits somehow don't realize that an Alexandrian tradition dating back to Philo and going forward to Eusebius makes the same thing absolutely clear - viz. that only the 'Logos' was manifest to Moses and the fathers.

And so they say to themselves - why bother follow up on this stuff? After all, it might prove how wrong our forefathers were.

The point is again that most New Testament scholars have absolutely no real knowledge about what Judaism is, was and always will be. Their meaningless 'confession' of belief in the Creator is so out of step with anything Jewish I see this as only developing out of an Imperial paranoia that belief in a higher power than the 'ruler of the world' was a codeword for disloyalty to the Emperor.

I would like for the moment at least to show that Marcion's position in AH 4.30.1 is entirely Jewish BECAUSE MARCION WAS ENTIRELY JEWISH. More Jewish than this meaningless Catholic faith with its meaningless confession of belief in the Creator. No Jew would ever do this because Jews have always known that the true God could not be 'bottled up' as a mere functionary of 'world creation.'

I believe that the Roman's eventually coerced this same 'confession' out of Jews but my people never entirely lost their connection with the mystical truth that God was better than this.

In any event let's get to the rabbinic witnesses to the Marcionite position in AH 4.30.1. We have been discussing this for the last few posts. The point is that in this section of Irenaeus's Against the Heresies, the Church Father reports that the Marcionites compare his Church's acceptance of money from the Emperor Commodus to the unrighteousness displayed by the ancient Israelites when they plundered Egypt at the time of Exodus. The idea is clearly that in the same way that the same gold taken from Pharaoh led to idolatry led to the creation of the Golden Calf the newly emergent 'Catholic' Church has fallen from grace by taking gold from Caesar.

I don't know how far we can take the analogy. Were the Marcionites saying that Commodus plundered gold and riches held in common by the Egyptian churches of Mark? Again I don't know. All that we can say for the moment is that Irenaeus and Tertullian attempt to develop the Marcionite position into a claim of 'anti-Semitism' (our word not the Church Fathers) and scholars follow lockstep after these innuendos when in fact the criticism of the Israelites is entirely in keeping with traditional rabbinic exegesis. As we see:

And Jeroboam drove Israel from following the Lord, and made them sin a great sin. R. Johanan said: As two sticks which cause each other to rebound. [These be the words which Moses spake unto all Israel … in the wilderness …] and Di Zahab. The School of R. Jannai expounded: Moses said before the Holy One, blessed be He: Sovereign of the Universe! It was because of the silver and gold [zahab] which Thou didst lavish upon them, until they said, Enough! [dai] that they were led to make a god of gold. A parable: The lion does not tear and roar out of a basket of straw, but out of a basket of meat. [Sanhedrin 102a]

R. Eleazar also said: Moses spoke insolently towards heaven, as it says, And Moses prayed unto the Lord. Read not el [unto] the Lord, but 'al [upon] the Lord, for so in the school of R. Eliezer alefs were pronounced like 'ayins and 'ayins like alefs. The school of R. Jannai learnt it from here: And Di-Zahab. What is 'And Di-Zahab'? They said in the school of R. Jannai: Thus spoke Moses before the Holy One, blessed be He: Sovereign of the Universe, the silver and gold [zahab] which Thou didst shower on Israel until they said, Enough [dai], that it was which led to their making the Calf. They said in the school of R. Jannai: A lion does not roar over a basket of straw but over a basket of flesh.

R. Oshaia said: It is like the case of a man who had a lean but large-limbed cow. He gave it lupines to eat and it commenced to kick him. He said to it: What led you to kick me except the lupines that I fed you with? R. Hiyya b. Abba said: It is like the case of a man who had a son; he bathed him and anointed him and gave him plenty to eat and drink and hung a purse round his neck and set him down at the door of a bawdy house. How could the boy help sinning? R. Aha the son of R. Huna said in the name of R. Shesheth: This bears out the popular saying: A full stomach is a bad sort, as It says, When they were fed they became full, they were filled and their heart was exalted; therefore they have forgotten Me. R. Nahman learnt it from here: Then thy heart be lifted up and thou forget the Lord. The Rabbis from here: And they shall have eaten their fill and waxen fat, and turned unto other gods. Or, if you prefer, I can say from here. But Jeshurun waxed fat and kicked. R. Samuel b. Nahmani said in the name of R. Jonathan. Whence do we know that the Holy One, blessed be He, in the end gave Moses right? Because it says, And multiplied unto her silver and gold, which they used for Baal.

And the Lord spoke unto Moses, Go, get thee down. What is meant by 'Go, get thee down'? R. Eleazar said: The Holy One, blessed be He, said to Moses: Moses, descend from thy greatness. Have I at all given to thee greatness save for the sake of Israel? And now Israel have sinned; then why do I want thee? Straightway Moses became powerless and he had no strength to speak. When, however, [God] said, Let Me alone that I may destroy them, Moses said to himself: This depends upon me, and straightway he stood up and prayed vigorously and begged for mercy. It was like the case of a king who became angry with his son and began beating him severely. His friend was sitting before him but was afraid to say a word until the king said, Were it not for my friend here who is sitting before me I would kill you. He said to himself, This depends on me, and immediately he stood up and rescued him.
Now therefore let Me alone that My wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them, and I will make of thee a great nation. R. Abbahu said: Were it not explicitly written, it would be impossible to say such a thing: this teaches that Moses took hold of the Holy One, blessed be He, like a man who seizes his fellow by his garment and said before Him: Sovereign of the Universe, I will not let Thee go until Thou forgivest and pardonest them. [Berakoth 32a]

On this last argument notice that it appears again connected with Marcionites in Tertullian

On that other occasion also God made himself little even in the midst of his fierce anger, when in his wrath against the people because of the consecration of the (golden) calf he demanded of his servant Moses, Let me alone, and I will wax hot in wrath and destroy them, and I will make thee into a great nation. On this you are in the habit of insisting that Moses was a better person than his own God—deprecating, yes and even forbidding, his wrath: for he says, Thou shalt not do this: or else destroy me along with them [AM 2.27].

What the hell is the matter with these scholars? I did all of this in ONE POST! Do you have any idea how much stupidity, how much nonesense, HOW MUCH GARBAGE has been written about how the Marcionites 'hated the Jews' when their positions are more in keeping with traditional Judaism than the meaningless confession of 'belief' in the inferior 'Creator' whom Jews have always known is not the most powerful manifestation of God Almighty!

Oh yes, the idea that the reformation of Judaism in the late second century was also financed from the Imperial treasury is evidenced in the rabbinic writings:

Many a time Antoninus sent Rabbi gold-dust in a leather bag filled with wheat at the top, saying [to his servants]: 'Carry the wheat to Rabbi!' Rabbi sent word to say. 'I need it not, I have quite enough of my own', and Antoninus answered: 'Leave it then to those who will come after thee that they might give it to those who will come after me, for thy descendants and those who will follow them will hand it over to them. [‘Abodah Zarah 10b]

And one more thing. Do you notice how the Marcionite position is witnessed in the debe Jannai - i.e. the 'school of Johnny'? Want to know who else is identified as Jannai in rabbinic literature?

Let me spell it out for these 'experts' - A - G - R - I - P - P - A.

Someone should drill this understanding into these people's heads. Maybe then they would start thinking properly.